This community is dedicated to information, study tips, and guides for the new format of the National Clinical Mental Health Examination. Please feel free to ask any questions! The community is run by a LMHC (FL) and LPCC (OH) who has taken both formats of the exam (one for license, the new one as a field tester). 4 Ncmhce Exam New Format 2023-01-02 invaluable resource. Ncmhce Secrets Study Guide - Exam Review and Ncmhce Practice Test for the National Clinical Mental Health Counseling Examination Prentice Hall This comprehensive handbook provides counselors in training, counselor educators, andThe NCMHCE includes 11 case studies. Of the total number of multiple-choice questions, 100 will be scored, and one of the case studies will be unscored. The unscored narrative and questions are used to generate statistics for future examinations. Each case study will comprise one narrative and 9–15 multiple-choice questions. Essential Info to Pass the NCMHCE. This is a 3-hour course that provides a detailed explanation of the format of the NCMHCE exam as well as tips and techniques on how to study for this exam. You will review the 5 domains you need to know to pass the exam and dissect one full narrative. Learn more about this course. For both formats: If you pass the examination, your official score will be forwarded to your state licensure board within 30 days of the end of the testing window. You should …According to the National Board for Certified Counselors (NBCC) and the Center for Credentialing and Education (CCE), these changes will go into effect in early 2022. As a coach and an exam candidate/clinician we will only need to be concerned with a few of the changes that may affect our study and exam prep strategies.score report? For both formats: If you pass the examination, your official score will be forwarded to your state licensure board within 30 days of the end of the testing window.Examination Format The NCMHCE test format is composed of 11 case studies. Of the total number of multiple-choice questions, 100 will be scored, and one of the case studies will be unscored. The unscored narrative and questions are used for generating item statistics for future test forms. Candidates will have a total test session of 255Exams NCE NCMHCE Exam Administration Accommodations Exam Security Exam Preparation DSM-5-TR Overview Subject Matter Experts Exam Sensitivity & Bias. State Licensure . State Licensure Exam Registration Military Health Systems State Board Directory NCE Handbook PDF NCMHCE Handbook PDF. Search Directories .This course is packed with over 80 hours of content for you to review and watch! You get the amazing study guide to help you structure your study sessions over 6 or 8 weeks PLUS you get practice exams, 6 videos covering the essential information on the new domains, and powerful tips on deciphering questions and maintaining your cool on test day.Are you preparing for the IELTS Academic Reading test? Do you want to improve your reading skills and achieve a higher score? If so, effective practice techniques are essential. Be...NCMHCE Domains 2 & 4; NCMHCE Domain 5; DSM-5-TR for the New Clinician; Narrative Review. Interactive Class; Related: Our On-Demand Narrative Courses; NCMHCE Package Deals. NCMHCE Program Package Options; 3-week Program in March 2024; Self-led Virtual Program; On-Demand Courses. VIEW FULL LIBRARY OF ON-DEMAND COURSES; Essential Info to Pass the ...Exam Format. Candidates must earn a passing score on the You must have a passing score on the National Clinical Mental Health Counseling Examination (NCMHCE).NCMHCE Practice Exams Plus. Ace the NCMHCE using our expert written practice questions with fully explained answers - guaranteed or your money back! PLUS, get our flash card study system, exam review, 50 state guide and test simulator to simulate actual test topics and conditions. Updated to the new NCMHCE test format with case studies.Sep 18, 2014 ... New York; Massachusetts; New Hampshire ... scores from the NCMHCE. Here are the states ... However, this format is more related to passing the NCE.6 month membership: New Format NCMHCE Prep Program with digital download. $275.00 $225.00 BUY. If you don't PASS your exam, I'll refund your subscription 100% ... I didn't come close to passing the NCMHCE the first time because of the breadth of content and complex design of the exam. Jonathan's workshop and study materials clarified the ...Passing score was 62/100 and I got 74/100. Like many in these threads have explained, ... I thought the NCMHCE narratives were similar in length to counselingexam as well (with the exception of one that was lengthy). ... etc. is important BUT you absolutely need to have strategies specifically for the exam format (narrative mapping was the most ...This community is dedicated to information, study tips, and guides for the new format of the National Clinical Mental Health Examination. Please feel free to ask any questions! The community is run by a LMHC (FL) and LPCC (OH) who has taken both formats of the exam (one for license, the new one as a field tester). Let's get you to pass!What is passing score for Ncmhce? On our website, the passing scores for the practice simulations are 72% for IG, and 74% for DM. ... According to the NBCC, the new NCMHCE test format will contain 11 case studies. Test takers will be given 225 minutes to complete the exam. Each case study will comprise one client narrative (which will include ...The exam is administered by Pearson VUE and is offered in a computer-based format. The exam consists of 75 multiple-choice questions, and the passing score is 70%. The exam is divided into two sections: ... The National Clinical Mental Health Counselor Examination (NCMHCE) is a standardized exam that is required for licensure as a professional ...NCMHCE Package Deals. NCMHCE Program Package Options; 3-week Program in March 2024; Self-led Virtual Program; NCMHCE Crash Course; On-Demand Courses. VIEW FULL LIBRARY OF ON-DEMAND COURSES; Essential Info to Pass the NCMHCE; NCMHCE Domains 1 & 6; NCMHCE Domains 2 & 4; NCMHCE Domain 5; DSM-5-TR Deep Dive 20+ hour course; DSM-5-TR for the New ...Beginning fall 2022, the new format of the National Clinical Mental Health Counseling Examination (NCMHCE) will be fully launched and the current version of the examination retired. This new, contemporary format is based on a content outline that was developed by subject matter experts from a national job analysis survey of more than 16,000 ...Ncmhce Exam Passing Score ncmhce-exam-passing-score 3 Downloaded from oldshop.whitney.org on 2020-07-31 by guest Glossary Terms, and References included. The Counseling Practicum and Internship Manual Shannon Hodges, PhD, LMHC, NCC, ACS 2019-10-16 This best-selling guide to the practicum and internship experience, writtenThis community is dedicated to information, study tips, and guides for the new format of the National Clinical Mental Health Examination. Please feel free to ask any questions! The community is run by a LMHC (FL) and LPCC (OH) who has taken both formats of the exam (one for license, the new one as a field tester). ... NCMHCE passing score ...The Process. For National Certified Counselors (NCCs), applicants for the NCC, and candidates who are requesting a score verification for an additional state, log in to your Credentialing Gateway account and submit a request and payment to have examination scores sent to a third party. This score report will also verify your current ...The test format comprises of 12 to 14 case studies. Each case study is followed by 10 multiple-choice questions, divided into counseling phases: the intake and assessment phase, the first follow-up counseling session, and the second follow-up counseling session. Candidates will have one hour and 45 minutes to complete the exam.Microsoft Excel enables you to create spreadsheets using financial data from other documents. If you need to insert financial data into your document, you can change the format of ... I am on 3rd attempt on taking the NCMHCE. The first time, I missed it by 2 points, the second time I missed it by 1 point. My latest attempt I scored a 65 and needed a 66 to pass. To say I am defeated feels underwhelming. I felt like I did really well the second time and felt confident in my ability to pass. What is the passing score for the Ncmhce? On our website, the passing scores for the practice simulations are 72% for IG, and 74% for DM. ... The NBCC has announced that it will begin the New Format for the NCMHCE on November 7, 2022 (or mid-October for those applying for NCC National Certification). This new format will look very different ...NCMHCE Package Deals. NCMHCE Program Package Options; 3-week Program in March 2024; Self-led Virtual Program; NCMHCE Crash Course; On-Demand Courses. VIEW FULL LIBRARY OF ON-DEMAND COURSES; Essential Info to Pass the NCMHCE; NCMHCE Domains 1 & 6; NCMHCE Domains 2 & 4; NCMHCE Domain 5; DSM-5-TR Deep Dive 20+ hour course; DSM-5-TR for the New ...An applicant must earn a passing score on the on the NCE (National Counselor Exam) or the National Clinical Mental Health Counselor Examination (NCMHCE) ... Test content of the NCMHCE. The test format comprises of 12 to 14 case studies. Each case study is followed by 10 multiple-choice questions, divided into counseling phases: the intake and ...Subscriptions Available: 21 Day Pass the NCMHCE - $149.99. 45 Day Pass the NCMHCE - $199.99. 60 Day Pass the NCMHCE - $249.99. 90 Day Pass the NCMHCE - $299.99. 120 Day Pass the NCMHCE - $349.99. 21 day access.Paperback. $42.53 - $47.26 22 Used from $42.53 25 New from $47.26. ***Your #1 Practice Test Resource***. Mometrix Test Preparation's NCMHCE Practice Questions 2022 and 2023 are the simplest way to prepare for your National Clinical Mental Health Counseling Examination. Practice is an important part of preparing for a test and improving your ...This community is dedicated to information, study tips, and guides for the new format of the National Clinical Mental Health Examination. Please feel free to ask any questions! The community is run by a LMHC (FL) and LPCC (OH) who has taken both formats of the exam (one for license, the new one as a field tester). Let's get you to pass!Those of us who took standard cohort setting exam should get results during 1st week of August and state will receive results by 8/15. We will be notified via email from pro-counseling. In the meantime, breathe and all that other mindfulness stuff we share…. I breathe and sip martinis…. 4.We were the first NCMHCE Exam test prep site online, and for 18 years we've been providing a way to study for your exam so you can get on with your life and put this experience behind you as quickly and as painlessly as possible, right from your own home. It's in there.NCMHCE Package Deals. NCMHCE Program Package Options; 3-week Program in March 2024; Self-led Virtual Program; NCMHCE Crash Course; On-Demand Courses. VIEW FULL LIBRARY OF ON-DEMAND COURSES; Essential Info to Pass the NCMHCE; NCMHCE Domains 1 & 6; NCMHCE Domains 2 & 4; NCMHCE Domain 5; DSM-5-TR Deep Dive 20+ hour course; DSM-5-TR for the New ... I am on 3rd attempt on taking the NCMHCE. The first time, I missed it by 2 points, the second time I missed it by 1 point. My latest attempt I scored a 65 and needed a 66 to pass. To say I am defeated feels underwhelming. I felt like I did really well the second time and felt confident in my ability to pass. The number or percentage of questions you need to get right in order to pass the test is the passing score. For California BBS exams, passing scores haven't been published since 2018. But you can find typical ranges here. As you'll see, they generally hover around 70%. For the NCMHCE, NCE, National MFT Exam, ASWB Clinical Level Exam ...Get a Feel for Exam Questions. Sign up below to gain access to a collection of sample questions. Explore the format, wording, and complexity of practice questions, and discover how multiple-choice answers are structured. Assess your exam readiness by reviewing correct answers and answer rationales. Our sample exam includes a variety of ...What is the passing score? It said 4-6 weeks for pass/fail results. I think you need to get a 72-75% to pass. Is that score out of 100? It really depends on how everyone else does on the test, but from what I remember generally high 90 or low 100 tends to be the cutoff.Essential Info to Pass the NCMHCE; NCMHCE Domains 1 & 6; NCMHCE Domains 2 & 4; NCMHCE Domain 5; DSM-5-TR Deep Dive 20+ hour course; DSM-5-TR: Changes You Need to Know; Narrative Review of Adult and Adolescent; ... DSM-5-TR for the New Clinician; Essential Info to Pass the NCMHCE. ON-DEMAND COURSE AVAILABLE. $75.The National Clinical Mental Health Counseling Examination (NCMHCE) is a pivotal milestone for mental health professionals in the United States. Whether you're a budding therapist or a seasoned counselor, passing this exam is a must. Dive into these 10 expert-approved strategies to conquer the NCMHCE this year: Grasp the Exam Format:4.) Do NOT over answer on the exam especially on DM. I read somewhere that you generally shouldn't click more than half on DM, but on counseling exam they advise you not to do that since they've changed the exam. The truth is when I took the exam about half or a little less than half of the responses were wrong.Examination Format The NCMHCE test format is composed of 11 case studies. Of the total number of multiple-choice questions, 100 will be scored, and one of the case studies will be unscored. The unscored narrative and questions are used for generating item statistics for future test forms. Candidates will have a total test session of 255It probably wouldn’t surprise you to hear many recruiters review resumes on their phones. That’s a problem for you if your resume is formatted more for print than for the screen. I...Those of us who took standard cohort setting exam should get results during 1st week of August and state will receive results by 8/15. We will be notified via email from pro-counseling. In the meantime, breathe and all that other mindfulness stuff we share…. I breathe and sip martinis…. 4.Essential Info to Pass the NCMHCE. This is a 3-hour course that provides a detailed explanation of the format of the NCMHCE exam as well as tips and techniques on how to study for this exam. You will review the 5 domains you need to know to pass the exam and dissect one full narrative. Learn more about this course.Hello everyone. I just took the LMHC exam in the old format for the second time, and although I passed the information collecting portion, I unfortunately failed the decision-making portion by five points. After the 90-day wait …iPhone Screenshots. Zen Prep is the #1 app for passing your exam, WITHOUT stress and anxiety. You will experience better exam practice, lower stress, and less anxiety with our step-by-step training, exam simulators, motivation programs, exam resources, and tips and tricks. Zen Prep is recommended by top teachers and mental health experts.Need feedback regarding new NCMHCE test . Advice wanted Hello! I'm a MHC-lp. ... I was wondering if anyone took the new format and whether you passed or not, time you took to study, and what things helped. ... I just took (and passed!) the NCMHCE today. Passing score was a 64. I had 143 questions and it took me about 3 hours. There was one 15 ...I am going to take the 4th no google whatsoever and hopefully score higher, planning to take it 11/19. I’ve been studying for 6 weeks, at first doing a few narratives a day and or some sections 3x a week. The last two weeks I have completed the practice exams. I have ADHD. I hate the format and it’s boring, also makes me frustrated.The passing score is 64 percent. My score was close to my lowest score on practice exams. Getting 70s should be fine. Mine was 64. Not 64% just 64 questions right. I just took it, they count 100 questions, and you have to get at least 64 right. I got 69, alot of reading.In Conclusion: NCMHCE may be challenging, but with the right strategies, success is attainable. Stay updated, remain consistent, and trust your capabilities. Best of luck to all 2023 NCMHCE candidates! The National Clinical Mental Health Counseling Examination (NCMHCE) is a pivotal milestone for mental health professionals in the United States.It probably wouldn’t surprise you to hear many recruiters review resumes on their phones. That’s a problem for you if your resume is formatted more for print than for the screen. I... The National Board for Certified Counselors (NBCC) has just revised the National Clinical Mental Health Counseling Exam (NCMHCE). They are revising the format to emphasize long-term ongoing therapy in the counseling relationship. Because of this format change and revision, they are now going to establish a new passing score cutoff for this version of the... You can cut down load times on a MacBook by adding a solid-state disk drive to the system; however, the drive won't do you any good unless it is formatted correctly for Mac OS. The...If you are taking the NCMHCE as part of your certification application, the new format will be administered during the fall 2022 certification cycle beginning in October, and you can request that your …Hello beautiful peers! I’ve seen some people wondering about the new format for this alphabet soup exam. I took it today online, you needed a score of 62 to pass. I used counselingexam.com and it was very helpful although the exam was MUCH harder than their practice exams and narratives. Hope this is helpful and happy to answer any questions!After many years of using the prior NCMHCE format, the NBCC has now switched to its 'New Format' for an exam. Here have to most significant modified: The brand format is a longer exam, containing 11 case study inbound 225 minutes. Each case study contains a your narrative (which contains the diagnosis) followed by 9-15 multiple-choice questions.NCMHCE Package Deals. NCMHCE Program Package Options; 3-week Program in March 2024; Self-led Virtual Program; NCMHCE Crash Course; On-Demand Courses. VIEW FULL LIBRARY OF ON-DEMAND COURSES; Essential Info to Pass the NCMHCE; NCMHCE Domains 1 & 6; NCMHCE Domains 2 & 4; NCMHCE Domain 5; DSM-5-TR Deep Dive 20+ hour course; DSM-5-TR for the New ...criterion (i.e., "passing") score for that form. Thus, the maximum possible score a respondent can achieve is 160. The remaining 40 items are unscored field-test items. Field-test items are included on the exam to gather item statistics to evaluate their performance for use on future exams. The following is an outline of the eight CACREPExamination Format The NCMHCE test format is composed of 11 case studies. Of the total number of multiple-choice questions, 100 will be scored, and one of the case studies will be unscored. The unscored narrative and questions are used for generating item statistics for future test forms. Candidates will have a total test session of 255NCMHCE Narrative Study Guide. Dr. Hutchinson's Study Guide for the NCMHCE Narrative Exam is a 321 page review of the following content areas: TEST CONSTRUCTION 1. Professional Practice and Ethics. 2. Intake, Assessment, and Diagnosis Assessment Indicators, Components and Characteristics. 3. Areas of Clinical Focus. 4.NCMHCE Package Deals. NCMHCE Program Package Options; 3-week Program in March 2024; Self-led Virtual Program; NCMHCE Crash Course; On-Demand Courses. VIEW FULL LIBRARY OF ON-DEMAND COURSES; Essential Info to Pass the NCMHCE; NCMHCE Domains 1 & 6; NCMHCE Domains 2 & 4; NCMHCE Domain 5; DSM-5-TR Deep Dive 20+ hour course; DSM-5-TR for the New ...New Format: Availability: Certification candidates: until Spring 2022: Licensure candidates: until October 2022 ... (passing score) Scoring at or above the cut score, for both . information gathering and decision-making, ... NCMHCE, format, counseling, examination, registration, mental health, comparison chart ...The National Clinical Mental Health Counseling Examination (NCMHCE New Format) can seem like a formidable challenge, but with the right keys, unlocking success becomes an attainable goal. "Demystifying NCMHCE New Format" is your guide to unraveling the complexities of the exam, providing essential insights and strategies to secure a passing score.The passing score is 64 percent. My score was close to my lowest score on practice exams. Getting 70s should be fine. Mine was 64. Not 64% just 64 questions right. I just took it, they count 100 questions, and you have to get at least 64 right. I got 69, alot of reading.What Is A Passing Score On The Ncmhce Foundations of Mental Health Counseling Artis J. Palmo 2006 ... New Information, Time Management, Contextual Clues, Don't Panic, Pace Yourself, Answer Selection, Check Your Work, Beware of Directly Quoted Answers, Slang, Extreme Statements, Answer Choice Families; A comprehensive Content review including:A good score on Test 473, the exam for entry-level jobs at the U.S. Postal Service, is at the upper end of the passing range between 70 and 100. Veterans or family members meeting ...Proudly powered by Weebly. NCMHCE NCMHCE Practice Exam Order NCMHCE New Format ContactFirst off congrats!! It takes about 4-6 weeks depending what state you are in they will send your scores to the board. What I did, was submit my application with my unofficial scores and added a note stating that the verified scores would be sent by NBCC. I tried to time it right so it corresponded with NBCC's estimated timeline. CA- 6-8 weeks.If you would like to take the current format of the NCMHCE solely for state licensure examination registration, you must schedule and take your examination by Oct. 17, 2022. Candidates interested in taking the new format of the examination must schedule it to take place after Nov. 7, 2022. Please note that the old format will no longer be an ...I am confident that my workshop will help you to pass this exam. In fact, I'll give you this guarantee: If you take the NCMHCE and don't pass, I will fully refund the original cost for your workshop. To receive your refund, you will need to send me a scan or picture of your score sheet. This refund offer is good for six months after you place ...NCMHCE Domains 2 & 4; NCMHCE Domain 5; DSM-5-TR for the New Clinician; Narrative Review. Interactive Class; Related: Our On-Demand Narrative Courses; NCMHCE Package Deals. NCMHCE Program Package Options; 3-week Program in March 2024; Self-led Virtual Program; On-Demand Courses. VIEW FULL LIBRARY OF ON-DEMAND COURSES; Essential Info to Pass the ...This community is dedicated to information, study tips, and guides for the new format of the National Clinical Mental Health Examination. Please feel free to ask any questions! The community is run by a LMHC (FL) and LPCC (OH) who has taken both formats of the exam (one for license, the new one as a field tester). Let's get you to pass!An applicant must earn a passing score on the National Clinical Mental Health Counselor Examination (NCMHCE). The Application for Licensure. ... Test content of the NCMHCE. The test format comprises of 12 to 14 case studies. Each case study is followed by 10 multiple-choice questions, divided into counseling phases: the intake and assessment ...Self-led NCMHCE Virtual Program; DSM-5-TR Deep Dive 20+ hour Series; On-Demand Courses. VIEW FULL LIBRARY OF ON-DEMAND COURSES; Essential Info to Pass the NCMHCE; NCMHCE Domains 1 & 6; NCMHCE Domains 2 & 4; NCMHCE Domain 5; DSM-5-TR Deep Dive 20+ hour course; DSM-5-TR for the New Clinician: Top 28 Diagnoses; …Examination Format The NCMHCE test format is composed of 11 case studies. Of the total number of multiple-choice questions, 100 will be scored, and one of the case studies will be unscored. The unscored narrative and questions are used for generating item statistics for future test forms. Candidates will have a total test session of 255The Simulator uses the new NCMHCE format also given immediate feedback after complete each case study. After finishes an entire exam starting 12 case studies, you get an overall exam score. ... and way above the score needed to pass. The site your incredibly accessible for people with screen readers, and that made all of the difference to me ...I am confident that my workshop will help you to pass this exam. In fact, I'll give you this guarantee: If you take the NCMHCE and don't pass, I will fully refund the original cost for your workshop. To receive your refund, you will need to send me a scan or picture of your score sheet. This refund offer is good for six months after you place ...
I am going to take the 4th no google whatsoever and hopefully score higher, planning to take it 11/19. I've been studying for 6 weeks, at first doing a few narratives a day and or some sections 3x a week. The last two weeks I have completed the practice exams. I have ADHD. I hate the format and it's boring, also makes me frustrated.. 124 vs 115 9mm
Buy NCMHCE Exam Prep 2024-2025: The Comprehensive Guide to Passing the Exam on Your First Try, NCMHCE Practice Test for the National Clinical Mental Health ...NCMHCE Domains 2 & 4; NCMHCE Domain 5; DSM-5-TR for the New Clinician; Narrative Review. Interactive Class; Related: Our On-Demand Narrative Courses; NCMHCE Package Deals. NCMHCE Program Package Options; 3-week Program in March 2024; Self-led Virtual Program; On-Demand Courses. VIEW FULL LIBRARY OF ON-DEMAND COURSES; Essential Info to Pass the ...6 month membership: New Format NCMHCE Prep Program with digital download. SKU: 101. $275.00. $225.00. $225.00. On Sale. Full 6 month online membership including online videos, study materials (Study Guide and Appendices as digital, printable download), online practice simulations and email support. Memberships are good for 6 months from date of ...May 25, 2023 ... ... NCMHCE. You can look it up and see where it is sold. My school provided me with the material. I think www.counselor exam.com has this exam ...The CPCE Passing Score is the threshold that counseling students must meet to successfully pass the Counselor Preparation Comprehensive Examination—a crucial step in advancing toward licensure and a professional counseling career. It typically ranges between 62% and 75%, depending on the individual counseling program's standards.To qualify to become a licensed professional counselor in New Mexico, the following must be met: ... An applicant must earn a passing score on the NCE (National Counselor Exam) to become an LMHC, and the NCE and the National Clinical Mental Health Counselor ... Test content of the NCMHCE. The test format comprises of 12 to 14 case studies. Each ...We are providing the opportunity for individuals registering for the NCMHCE to be a part of the standard-setting cohort, allowing them to make a positive impact on the future of counseling! Participation in this cohort is completely voluntary. Standard-setting cohort participants will receive a $50 registration fee discount.Dr. Arthur offers 4 exam sets of 12 case studies each based on the New NCMHCE Format! The Case Study Simulator provides feedback for each answer you select and scores each case study. Upon completion of a set you get an overall score with domain breakdowns and study suggestion. You can practice using the exam-based case studies to simulate ...I have never been a good test taker due to anxiety (driving test, SAT, ASVAB) and I plan to take it 1 more time in 2023 with the new format and praying I pass it this time because I am only allowed to take it 3x in 2 years so I hoping the new format will help with my yest anxiety and looking it over on the practice tests seems like a better fit.6 month membership: New Format NCMHCE Prep Program with digital download. $275.00 $225.00 BUY. If you don't PASS your exam, I'll refund your subscription 100% ... I didn't come close to passing the NCMHCE the first time because of the breadth of content and complex design of the exam. Jonathan's workshop and study materials clarified the ...NCMHCE Exam Prep Package - Live Online Instruction (6-Month Access) $399.00. Description: Get 20 hours of live instruction as part of this comprehensive package that provides you with all the pieces we believe you need to be successful on the Read More. Get two full-length exams and 11 additional practice cases for 429 questions in all.It told me the passing score is a 64. It's 140 question test but is scored out of 100. So you technically just need a 64% Reply reply More replies. ... Dis you take the new format of the NCMHCE more than once? If so, were all the version ms different or the same? What helped you pass the 3rd time?.
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